Is There A God and Why Not
67People are ready to believe that someone created the wheel but not ready to believe that there is creator of this universe. How very arrogant!!!
Recently I came across a discussion thread on facebook.com titled “Here is why God doesn't exist. The hell am I reading 600+ pages of your crappy arguments. My logic is flawless.” By Dominic Hinkins. I read it and wanted to post a reply, but something made me stop. Why should I get into an argument with a guy who thinks that he is absolutely flawless. But the issue is worth viewing as most young minds are being poisoned by fellows like Dominic Hinkins who wrote such an atrocious article.
I may sound a bit agitated (which I am) but the fact is that some people consider them flawless in their thinking which is their biggest flaw. Here are the points on which Dominic Hinkins based his arguments:
1. Suffering exists. If God exists and is worth worshipping, he doesn't want us to suffer, and can stop suffering at will
2. YOUR specific religion isn't the right one. Lots of people are convinced by lots of different holy books/religions they can't all be right.
3. The world doesn't need your God to exist.
4. We evolved, deal with it
I will try to give my reasons for God’s existence and I hope they will be more convincing.
1. Yes, suffering exists and it will continue. This is how the system works. God created this world and set it in motion with a set of laws governing it. you jump from a higher point you will fall and that is how the law of gravity works it will not change to save Dominic Hinkins or any other idiot from getting injured just because god should not cause any pain and suffering to mankind. Other sufferings like famine, drought and babies dying are all linked with this system. If we analyze things with an open mind we will see the reasons behind every happening.
2. When it comes to worshipping God. Yes he is worth worshipping and actually he does not need our rituals to survive as he is well above that but we need to worship just to thank him for all the goodness of life that he has bestowed upon us.
3. Talking about people believing in different religions and holy books. Religions do differ in their practices of rituals but the basic teachings are the same for all. There is no contradiction to certain facts and they are
a. There is one creator of this universe and he is the all mighty. Pray to him and he will reply to your prayers
b. Be kind to other people. God is kind to those who are kind to fellow human beings
c. All religions teach the same cardinal sins to avoid.
d. There is a heaven and there is a hell for people to get rewards and punishment in the afterlife on the judgment day.
4. Adam, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad were all messengers of God and gave people the same basic message and a few other which were relevant to their time.
5. Let me tell you one more fact. In Islam there is no concept of suicide bombing as perceived by many. In fact the Islamic teachings about such actions is that those who harm other in the name of correcting the society are at fault themselves and should not be considered Muslims at all.
6. Dominic Hinkins says that the world doesn’t need a God to exist. Well this is not for us to decide if we need a God or not. He is there and the fact is that people who transgress their limits are often set right by him in the most spectacular way.
7. Do we evolve? Yes and that is the system set by God.
We must realize the fact that the God Almighty has certain qualities and the biggest one is that he is the creator who has created without an example to follow. We also create but what we create is based on an example and further requirements evolved out of that we see in nature. Wheels, flying machines, electricity, microwave technology, catapults and what not’s, all have their basis available in nature to copy from, but God alone has created the entire universe without a copy paste option.
We are ready to believe that someone created the wheel but we aren’t ready to accept the fact that someone created the universe. How very arrogant!!!
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Issues veritas that is for to say that religion is a man’s creation. But actually had it been in any man's hands to create a religion he would declare himself as God. This has happened before and there are a lot of examples available in the history. None of those religions have survived.
Yes world today is in turmoil because of religious differences and those differences have been created by men who have strayed away from the true teachings of their religion.
You are saying that there are no real laws or governances from God. You better read the Holy Quran which contains laws for every aspect of human life from personal conduct to business dealing, from personal financial matters to financial matters for a state, How to resolve your personal differences and dealing politically with another country, peace accords, trade relations you name it and the Holy Book contains it.
The wheel analogy is just to clarify the fact that we cannot create anything without an example, even as simple as a wheel and it is only God who has the wisdom to create without example. Then why do we challenge His existence.
Seeing, feeling and touching God you say is necessary to confirm its existence. Well we are not advanced enough or rather pure enough to do that. We couldn’t see feel or touch so many things such as viruses and bacteria’s a couple of decades ago but can you deny that they existed then or do you believe that they started existing after we were able to see them. It is just we do not have the power to literary do that with God.
I get the flu and I am still not able to see the virus but does that mean that it does not exist? NO the fact remains that it is there only we do not have the correct dimensions and ability to see it.
Owais,
The Quran was created by man, followers may say from God, but there is nothing divine in its creation.
Not everyone follows the Quran.
The heads of every religion are Kings and they control more than just countries.
Faith required by religion is opposite of Intelligent Thought and there is no bridge to join them.
I am not saying that there may not be a Creator, but religion doesn't have any connection to the Creator.
Mohammad was supposed to be a prophet but he failed to define his successors and now Shiite and Sunnis follow a different leader and kill for the differences.
Is that not true?
Let me tell you something that there is no doubt about Holy Quran is a revelation from God as it has its own miracles to prove that.
1. It is unchanged since its revelation over 1400 years.
2. This is the only book in the world which is memorized by people word to word by heart. No other book of that volume is known to memorize even by its own author.
3. The facts revealed in The Holy Quran are now being proved by modern science which were not know by any man even a couple of decades ago.
4. It contains so many solutions to problems which even a large counsel of the wisest would not have been able to write all that information as it was not available at that time.
Please follow these links for details.
http://www.acryfromanhonestsoul.com/
www.quranandscience.com/
As far as your doubt about the capabilities of Holy Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is concerned, he did not fail at anything. The Sunni and Shiite factions came up almost 600 years after his time. His successors were very competent people and that is why Islam became the single largest religion in those days in the civilized world of that time (/Africa, Asia and Europe)
I am not trying to change your belief, but I don't see it in your light.
Where are today's miracles?
Why are Sunni and Shiite killing each other while still reading from the same Quran?
The fact that it took 600 years for the disagreement between them to appear, is itself a question.
When you say that God created the entire universe is your version the same one as Genesis in the Bible?
Again, these are questions and if you feel that I should not ask questions, then I will leave in peace.
Issues veritas, you’re asking questions is not a problem, that is why I wrote this hub to clarify doubts that people have. As long as you are not abusive and insolent towards those believers respect (any religion) I have no problems :)
I wrote about the miracles of The Holy Quran which proves it to be a book revealed by God as it is the only book in the world which people have been able to memorize word for word and have been able to retain from their childhood to old age.
The reasons why Sunnis and Shiites are killing each other are no different from the reasons why anybody else kills. It is basically intolerance towards others. USA has seen its share of racial killing of blacks and even now there are places where blacks and whites are intolerant to each other.
In our case these differences were created by the British colonial rulers by depriving the Muslim masses of education and inculcating differences in the illiterate minds for their own reasons. Places where there was no colonial rule, people live in harmony and have no tolerance problem.
My friend there is just one God and he is the creator. No one can claim him to be specific to their religion. Yes it is the same Gracious God Almighty.
I have not written this hub to support one religion but to counter those who say that there is no God and we do not need one.
Great Job
Thanks
Hi there! I'm here, to poison your minds!
"I read it and wanted to post a reply, but something made me stop. Why should I get into an argument with a guy who thinks that he is absolutely flawless. But the issue is worth viewing as most young minds are being poisoned by fellows like DominicHinkins who wrote such an atrocious article."
Not to compound your view of my arrogance, but I'm inclined to suspect that the reason you didn't join the discussion was that you were afraid to submit your argument to a public forum. You couldn't face anyone challenging your view. Whereas the reason I posted my arguments on the internet was precisely to stimulate debate, get people challenging my views--and their own. My tongue-in-cheek title included the words "my logic is flawless" primarily to make it a contentious and attractive topic for discussion, and it worked; so far the topic's been going strong for over a year with only occasional lulls in conversation and descents into name-calling.
I've addressed the very boring and unoriginal arguments you offered here multiple times on my topic, and I've half a mind not to reply to them. But who am I to let you get away with posting this in a setting where you could avoid my criticisms, and treat my arguments as straw men without giving a chance to respond?
"1. Yes, suffering exists and it will continue. This is how the system works. God created this world and set it in motion with a set of laws governing it. you jump from a higher point you will fall and that is how the law of gravity works it will not change to save Dominic Hinkins or any other idiot from getting injured just because god should not cause any pain and suffering to mankind. Other sufferings like famine, drought and babies dying are all linked with this system. If we analyze things with an open mind we will see the reasons behind every happening."
What a non-answer. Simply put: unless God is not truly omnipotent, not truly good, or not there, there is nothing he can achieve through pain and suffering that he couldn't achieve some other way. You're welcome to go along with C.S. Lewis in making God the Most Powerful Being but unable to do some things; that might just provide an explanation for why a good God feels it's necessary to do whatever it is he’s doing with his mysterious higher purpose through the medium of death and suffering unjustly distributed...
If God IS omnipotent, considering the infinite number of options available to him, and the inefficient, painful methods he chose, he’s not worth worshipping. Anything an omnipotent God can do with suffering, he can do gently—and without any side effects.
“ Talking about people believing in different religions and holy books. Religions do differ in their practices of rituals but the basic teachings are the same for all. There is no contradiction to certain facts”
You missed the point spectacularly. This post should clarify things for you.
Essentially, if one person uses faith to justify belief X; and another person uses faith to justify belief Y; and X and Y cannot both be correct (i.e., Jesus IS the son of God, and Jesus is NOT the son of God) then it must be the method (faith) which is wrong. Thus any conclusion arrived at by that method (faith) is automatically suspect. Even if all the world religions simply disagreed on one point, it would falsify the reliability of faith and make some other form of justification a necessity.
Even your assertion that “Adam, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad were all messengers of God and gave people the same basic message and a few other whichwere relevant to their time.” Is a faith position different from those who have faith only one of those interpretations is correct. And have you forgotten about paganism?
“All religions teach the same cardinal sins to avoid.”
This is simply a lie. Neither do all religions believe “There is one creator of this universe and he is the all mighty. Pray to him and he will reply to your prayers” or that “There is a heaven and there is a hell for people to get rewards and punishment in the afterlife on the judgment day.” Your ignorance is showing.
I’m beginning to see why you didn’t wish to submit your thinking to any kind of criticism.
“Let me tell you one more fact. In Islam there is no concept of suicide bombing as perceived by many. In fact the Islamic teachings about such actions is that those who harm other in the name of correcting the society are at fault themselves and should not be considered Muslims at all.”
This is a big effing straw man, dude. I never mentioned anything about Islambeing an inherently violent religion. But I will now. Yes, Islam teaches that nobody should hurt anyone else and all religions should be tolerated and so on and so on.
The problem is, it ALSO says a lot of stuff about Jihad and killing the infidel. It’s convenient in that it means you can quote whichever bit applies depending on the situation you need it in; it’s also immensely self contradictory, like the bible and a dozen other religious texts I could mention. If I tell one person both “kill people” and “don’t kill people” it doesn’t make me peaceful; it makes me at worst murderous, and at best, confusing.
“We are ready to believe that someone created the wheel but we aren’t ready to accept the fact that someone created the universe. How very arrogant!!!”
Let me get this straight. You think the Creator of the Universe cares personally about your life, and that you know, with absolute certainty, what he wants for all of humankind. While I think that we’re basically alone, not very special, and are just fumbling through our random existence trying to do the best we can.
And I’m the arrogant one?*
A final word of advice; if you want to avoid the writer you’re rubbishing coming around and pointing out flaws in your arguments, don’t put his name in it so it pops up in a Google search. And may I point out that in presenting your arguments here as flawless refutations of mine, you’re being just as arrogant as you accuse me of being. The references to my stupidity ought to have hinted at that. But as it is, you now look immensely hypocritical. Congratulations.
Dominic,
Probably in your 18 years of life you still have to learn a lot before you go about challenging God's existence. The Academic freedom you talk about is merely you anger and frustration that you want to take out by getting undue attention on the internet by negatively presenting your points. You are probably a failure in life who wants to blame God for all that has happened to you or seen honest church going people being wronged. Bravo!!!
You proved my point that you have a deranged mind is that you started your comment by saying that you are here to “poison minds” with your comments and explanations. Believe me no one will pay attention to your logics just because you are a hypocrite who knows that what you have written in your comment is pure illogical and baseless ideas which few attention seekers go around looking for.
I am not here to correct you nor do I think that I will be able to accomplish that because what you have in you is pure negativity and spite and I do not wish to indulge in an argument. I have seen your blog and what has really impressed me is that you have so much time to scribble down so much venom that it proves that you are so angry with God that you want to take revenge for your loss from him by publically denying his existence as you can’t anything else.
I just wish you peace.
//Probably in your 18 years of life you still have to learn a lot before you go about challenging God's existence. //
Says the man who...failed to rebut my arguments.
//The Academic freedom you talk about is merely you anger and frustration that you want to take out by getting undue attention on the internet by negatively presenting your points.//
If it were relevent, I could make precisely the same accusation about your attempt to answer me here instead of in a public forum.
//You are probably a failure in life who wants to blame God for all that has happened to you or seen honest church going people being wronged. Bravo!!!//
Not that all these ad hominems are at all relevent, but no, I'm not a failure by any stretch of the imagination. I'm doing very well. My rejection of religion is purely rational, not emotional, and all the suffering I'm concerned with is purely empathetic.
//You proved my point that you have a deranged mind is that you started your comment by saying that you are here to “poison minds” with your comments and explanations. //
Note to self: Owais fails to understand sarcasm.
//Believe me no one will pay attention to your logics just because you are a hypocrite who knows that what you have written in your comment is pure illogical and baseless ideas which few attention seekers go around looking for.//
Show your working? What exactly is illogical and baseless about any of my ideas? The assertion that my ideas are illogical and baseless is itself baseless (not being based on any coherent argument). Hypocrisy.
// so angry with God that you want to take revenge for your loss from him by publically denying his existence as you can’t anything else.//
Straw man.
//I just wish you peace.//
Lies.
good day.
Dominic,
I will soon write a hub on you I hope that it will help you. In the mean while try finding goodness in life and you will see GOD yourself. Life is not only bad.
"If it were relevent, I could make precisely the same accusation about your attempt to answer me here instead of in a public forum."
This is a public forum.
"Not that all these ad hominems are at all relevent, but no, I'm not a failure by any stretch of the imagination. I'm doing very well. My rejection of religion is purely rational, not emotional, and all the suffering I'm concerned with is purely empathetic."
Rational is what you are far away from seeing at your age. I dont know what your standards of success are. Probably as flimsy as your rational.
"Show your working? What exactly is illogical and baseless about any of my ideas? The assertion that my ideas are illogical and baseless is itself baseless (not being based on any coherent argument). Hypocrisy."
Your arguments are purely based on your onw opinion what you think has been proved logically. But there are evidences far more rational than your.
I still wish you peace and it is not a lie.
No, I don't commit myself to the existence of God - no way however even you say how arrogant I am...
Moulik its just a matter of recognizing the creator or the inventor. We do that all the time for every invention of product we see around us. but I cant comprehend why people become so obsessed with the idea that there is no God while there is an inventor of all other worldly things.
The fact is that God doesn't need our recognition especially where we all are taking his world.
I am, as a matter of fact surprised to read your comment. I thought that India was a land where in one form or the other people believed in God.
For me God is not bound to a religion He is the same for everyone. The Christian, Muslim, Jew or Hindu God is one and the same but the actual creator no matter what we call him he remains GOD!
wwwwooooooooooowwwwwwww!
Umair I guess This means you agree :)
Hey Dominic long time no see! :)
I also disagree with the maker of this thread at very many points. A friendly tip to you Owais: if you want to be taken seriously, you should look up facts before you throw them out just like that, especially essential facts like "all religions believing in one God".
But back to you Dominic, I have to say, that by reading your writings I catch one positive and one negative thing about you. the good thing is that you think very rational, that gets you very far. But the negative thing is that you think too rational, as in too square.
Example: "unless God is not truly omnipotent, not truly good, or not there, there is nothing he can achieve through pain and suffering that he couldn't achieve some other way."
There is one important reason why I think that God is not so square as you want him to be. If he is the God people believe in, then he created the world out of nothing, and is constantly maintaining it. Why would a being, able to do that, be totally square by human standards? If he exists, why would you think you could contain God in either: "not truly omnipotent, not truly good, or not there"??
And about your second point:
"there is nothing he can achieve through pain and suffering that he couldn't achieve some other way"
How would you even know that? I daresay you must claim to be omnipotent yourself to make such a claim
And about the term omnipotent. It is a term which we only can relate philosophically to. Practically, according to human logics, it is impossible for anyone to be omnipotent, because if the omnipotent being, turned something impossible for himself to do, then we have 2 options which leads to the same conclusion:
1. If he actually could do it anyway, he wouldn't be omnipotent
2. If he couldn't do it (just as he made it) he wouldn't be omnipotent.
The point of calling God omnipotent, is to get anywhere near an idea of how he's like. It's the best way for us to be able to describe him.
My perception Dominic, is that your problem is that you think everything either black or white. But try to get outside your box, and you will see that nearly everything in existence are shades of grey. Or at least explain to me why they are not?
Regards Jan Tore
Jan I appreciate your points. We all have limited capabilities and to perceive God as what He is we have to cross that barrier that restricts us. That is why to see and understand the existence of God we have get out of the box!
issues veritas 3 years ago
I am sorry, but none of your seven points are convincing and they are self serving statements without any valid reference points.
Religion is a creation of man.
There may be a Creator but it is not contained in any religion.
The world today is in turmoil because of religious differences, is that what a common God would want as worship?
There are no real laws or governances from God.
As far as the wheel analogy, it is pretty weak. The wheel exists and it is not a mystery, nor do you have to have faith to believe that it exists. As far as its creation, the wheel shape can be found naturally in the environment, and copying its shape and finding a use is totally within the curiosity and intelligence of humans.
But we still can't see, feel, touch God.